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Napalm Riot Forums > Behind the Scenes > Feedback: Character Templates

Feedback: Character Templates

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ӝspot

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New stuff

We are currently in development of the Napalm Character system which allows you as a user to define and present each of your in-game characters. This is primarily focus on role-playing games, but there will be certain exceptions such as Second Life characters.

In light of providing the highest level of functionality we are building this system with what I will call a Data Template method.

What this means is that we do not assume that all the information you wish to present for your character is always the same. As to say that your character in WoW will have more or less the same information as your character in Everquest, or EVE, etc. This is something that almost all other web properties do, and we have always thought it stupid.

You should not have to attempt to fit a square, triangle, octagon, etc all in a round hole. It just does not make proper sense.

So we are building 'templates' for each character type, depending on the virtual world which the character lives in.

So as an example in an MMO like WoW you have a lot of what would normally be considered 'default' information, however with a MMO like EVE you end up having some completely different types of stats and character information. This is important for us to consider and therefore Napalm's character system to consider.

Your Help

What we need from you is two things. First we need help listing the different MMOs available. While someone would be hard pressed to find an MMO I have not played (excluding the hundreds of web based) it is still difficult to compile a broad list from memory.Second we need the individual types of information which need to be stored for a character in each game.

Before I post this thread I will create a Global -> Characters forum ('global' because it will be used in more places than the user pages). Anyone who wants to post a new template will create a new thread inside that forum called 'Template -> Whatever'. So for example you could post a 'Template -> World of Warcraft' thread with that template as the post body. If there is already a thread created for the game you are interested in, then create a new post in that thread. If, for example, you have something to add to an already posted template.

Structure

Here is how we are going to structure these threads.

You can put whatever commentary you wish, but the actual template needs to be presented in the following way. This may seem a bit foreign to some of you, and more familiar to others (specifically those that have experience with any kind of database). No matter who you are however, it's not very difficult to understand.

For each information type, you need to provide a label for that information, the type of information, and the maximum amount of that information.

So an entry for a character name would look like:

Name ... Text ... 24

This would be an information with the label of 'name', the type of information is 'text' (only letters), and a maximum length of 24 letters.

Likewise an example of a stat would be like:

Mana ... Number ... 3

This would be information with the label of 'mana', the type of information is 'number' (only numbers), and a maximum length of 3 letters.

The information types are: Text (only letters), Number (only numbers), Mixed (letters and numbers).

Also, this is not required, but if some of you are the developer types and are familiar with data formatting standards (such as regex) it would be helpful for you to provide that type of commentary for the information types suggested. Please do this for only the types of data that you know. So don't just make assumptions on things, but if you know for example that a particular game requires a first name and a last name, then that is valuable information which we need to implement.

Conclusion & Clarifications

Just to be clear, I ask that if you don't actually _play_ the game, please do not post a template. I am hoping that I don't have to reopen all my MMO accounts to double check all this information. That is why we need you! :)

Lastly, this has ran on longer than I expected, but I get hyped when talking about this stuff. :) I look forward to seeing what you post.

Thanks!
Spot
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    ɤSilentkey (#1766)

    Wipes Groups For Fun

    could there be one for pokemon and we could have six spots for the party and people could pick theyre team
    12.20.07 6:44 pm
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    ɤcrazycycoclown (#1999)

    Artist

    I think what he is saying is not starting one up but for ones that already exist. And Have you Heard of FLYFF... aka Fly For Fun??
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    12.23.07 2:28 pm
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      ӝfluffy (#2967)

      エリート

      I've heard of flyff, it looks really cool. I tried a while back to get it to wine over Linux, but unfortunately I wasn't successful. Once I get a Windows machine some day in the distant future, I'll finally be able to play it =)

      The character design seemed to remind me a lot of Lineage II, which was sexy.
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      01.07.08 4:55 am
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    ѻIceAngel (#2316)

    Headshot Hero

    Its basically like a Gaia avatar... But less girly :) Amirite?
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    12.29.07 12:26 am
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    ɤDilusion (#2329)

    My Mii Is Hotter Than Your Mii

    You could allow for more options on your character with the more posts you have in a system like

    10 posts -> 3 items on character
    25 posts -> 4 items on character
    50 posts -> 5 items on character

    It could continue so until you reach a limit of let's say 8 items. That or with an increase of posts come special items or more customizable features like user created items.

    I don't know how advance this thing is, I never messed with Gaia-fags. :p
    12.29.07 2:01 am
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      ӝspot (#2440)

      Chief Instigator

      Can you more precisely define 'item' ?
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      12.30.07 10:19 am
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        ɤDilusion (#2467)

        My Mii Is Hotter Than Your Mii

        I was thinking items like a hat, goggles, or accessories like guns and whatnot. Idk. Am I thinking of the same character system you guys are? o.O
        12.30.07 10:47 pm
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          ӝspot (#2616)

          Chief Instigator

          Oh, actually this system is for you to list characters which you have in MMO's. It is not for Napalm specific characters. That is an idea we have discussed in the past but it is much more toward having a game on the site here (which may be possible in the future).

          This is for you to list the chars you have in games already.
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          01.03.08 9:54 am
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    ѻIceAngel (#2348)

    Headshot Hero

    With dilusion, you could make it after x posts you can buy y items. One of those items could be the ability to edit :)
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    12.29.07 5:09 am
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      ɤDilusion (#2410)

      My Mii Is Hotter Than Your Mii

      Yah, maybe I have no idea what you guys are talking about. lol

      Could you give me an example outside of Gaia?
      12.29.07 8:44 pm
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    ɤRastaban (#2607)

    Is In Your Base, Killing Your Mans

    They're talking not about making a Napalm-specific character, like in Gaia, but linking your, say, WoW or EQ character to your Napalm profile. A la Curse, for those of who know it.

    And they say that they plan to make this work with numerous games, so perhaps GW, Titan Quest, maybe the classics like Diablo or Sacred. Or maybe it will limited to MMOs, though since the last three have online capabilities, I don't see why they shouldn't be supported.

    Finally, they're asking for help designing your character pages for each individual game, and to help list all the played online games out there.
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    01.02.08 10:44 pm
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      ӝspot (#2617)

      Chief Instigator

      Exactly. :)

      And no, we are not limiting it. We want to support even single-player chars for games like Oblivion.
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      01.03.08 9:55 am
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    ѻzionwingmaster (#2726)

    LVL 72 Beefy Nerd

    would there be spots for pencil and paper sheets?
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    01.04.08 2:01 pm
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      ӝspot (#2787)

      Chief Instigator

      The 'Data Templates' I spoke of allow us to create any kind of character type, no matter what the information is you need to store for it.

      What this does require however is that someone gives us a layout of what that data would be.

      In fact I had trouble trying to explain what we need from you guys over in the Character forum, but you just brought it up. We need character sheets. We need to know what 'slots' you will want to fill with information, just like a char sheet.

      So get to it! :)
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      01.05.08 4:44 am
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    ɤRastaban (#2792)

    Is In Your Base, Killing Your Mans

    Hmm...is it possible to make some of these auto-updatable?

    Basicly, is it possible to create a character sheet that would update itself for, say, my WoW char or my Halo account, or any other game that supports online play, maybe?
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    01.05.08 4:52 am
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      ӝspot (#2795)

      Chief Instigator

      At one of my first executive positions as CTO at a financial company the board and investors would always bring up something in meetings (extremely boring meetings might I add) and then ask me if they were possible. My response was always the same "Anything is possible, it's just a matter of time and money." :)

      That was obviously a relative term, not all things are possible, but most are. In this situation several factors are of concern. First, if the data is made public. For example, in Lineage 2 most of the character data, even in type, is not available from the company. Others like Everquest 2 have online services which let players post their char data, but it is not a 'feed' which is built for code to read. Then others like WoW and EVE actually have feed type data which is much easier.

      Therefore, for WoW and EVE it will be quite easy to auto-update this stuff and we do plan to do that eventually. For places like Everquest 2 which has the information on the web, we would have to employ a technique sometimes called 'scraping'. It is a messy process which requires you to use code to 'load' that webpage (like you do in a browser) and then try to find the information you need among all hundreds of layout and image information on the page. Doing this in code can be very bad, and it will break the moment the website changes it's appearance, etc. For places like Lineage 2 which do not make the information even available on the web, it's next to impossible.

      Does this answer your question?
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        ɤRastaban (#2796)

        Is In Your Base, Killing Your Mans

        Yes it does. Thank you.
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        01.05.08 5:09 am
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          ӝspot (#2802)

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          No problem.

          Good question btw. :)
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          01.05.08 5:18 am
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    ѻzionwingmaster (#3031)

    LVL 72 Beefy Nerd

    One question, what about stats with no actual max stat. I know of several PnP games that have no max on anything.
    Sorry if question is redundant, as this is getting awful confusing for me at this point. I feel bad cause I'm normally the one confusing others, lolz.
    Not sure I understand the exact syntax, and I feel bad for wasting time having people explain things, but what can I do,Lolz.
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    01.07.08 6:51 pm
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      ӝspot (#3044)

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      If I am understanding correctly, you are concerned that without a max it is impossible to correctly state a data length. Technically you are correct, but in a situation like that, just think about what the highest it could ever be and then provide a length based on that.
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      01.07.08 7:28 pm
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        ѻzionwingmaster (#3171)

        LVL 72 Beefy Nerd

        But, but, then I have to think, GASP! Lolz, Thanks for clearing that up.
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        01.08.08 12:38 pm
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          ӝspot (#3199)

          Chief Instigator

          But look, you are learning the beginnings of database structure & design. :P
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          01.08.08 9:34 pm
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    ѻzionwingmaster (#3576)

    LVL 72 Beefy Nerd

    I realize it may take a lot of memory space, but couldn't you do like you do with the Music and inspirations and such in the profile, you know let people create custom sheets? It would be an awesome feature for people who do RP's and want their own mechanics, thus need a unique character sheet. I see you would still need ones for WoW and such so it could be auto updated, but you could also have these too.m I have no Idea how that would work memory wise and such, but thought I'd throw it out there.

    Also, in the D20 system theres the skills section and theres like 50 separate skills. Plus if you are in depth with it, there are many others and custom ones. Do you want me to make individual entrys for all of them or how do you want me to do it? There are a number of other things but they all have to do with the max number limiting the customization of the game. Do you just want me to make a entry on the base sheet?

    HELP ME!
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    01.11.08 3:16 pm
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      ӝspot (#3894)

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      This is an interesting idea, and I would be much quicker to implement this as a part of the group and guild systems. If we did it globally then when someone went to create a new char they would have thousands of templates to choose from and that just becomes annoying, when only a few actually apply to anything they play.


      Concerning D20, if the skill slots are things that don't change (meaning the types of information do not randomly fluctuate) then add them in there for sure. It doesn't really take anymore to handle 60 fields than it does 20.
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      01.14.08 11:24 am
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        ѻzionwingmaster (#3901)

        LVL 72 Beefy Nerd

        On the custom sheets:
        You could do like with some stuff I've seen like gamespots videos, and separate main site material from user made material, and for the user made, ask the game and such to make it more searchable, if you wanted anything searchable. Or maybe make the sheets not be entered into a searchable thing at all. Make them private, like only obtainable on the persona profile or something, so for a RP everyone who wants to join must visit the persons profile to get the sheet to fill it out. Then maybe it could be sent to thatperson fro approval, so that the person running the RP could have greater control over who plays what and such.
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        01.14.08 12:41 pm
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    ɤFrew (#3816)

    Retro Gamer

    Hmm... I've got friends who play those lesser games like RuneScape and MapleStory...

    I'm sure NR will attract some of them...
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    ɤArchaicStigma (#3827)

    Won The Internet

    This is a really good idea, I would so upload my epix wow character.

    -AS
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    01.14.08 2:33 am
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      ӝspot (#4015)

      Chief Instigator

      Glad you agree!
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      01.15.08 2:17 am
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    ɤPokemanz (#4022)

    Has Caught Them All

    Yeah, I think the idea of a Pokemon styled avatar thingie is cool. :3

    So you can show six pokemon, and a trainer of your choice. c<

    I also like gaia's avatar based system. I like the full bodied avatars that are pretty much fully customizable... it def gives me a reason to keep playing/visiting the site. That can get pretty tough to make, and I understand it would take much time to develop... and this isn't Gaia. xD It's a bit different, lulz.

    So, I dunno how well that style of avatar would fly around here.

    But, yeah, I def give the pokemon trainer/pokemon two thumbs up. :3 I know I'd use it. c<

    (Excuse me for not reading the entire complete post if I say something dumb that was explained)
    But of course, customizable avatars is the way to go. Game chars from MMOs ain't a bad idea. :3 But wouldn't you have to like find character models for various MMOs? o wo; That would be tough. Also all the items your char can have.

    But, I'm not a pro on this topic. xD Just simply imputing my advice. :3 Maybe it helps... but it probably didn't. x3 I just want to get my post count up! <33 :]
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    ѻzionwingmaster (#4519)

    LVL 72 Beefy Nerd

    well, until you finish the system, I'll just use the Other Profiles thing to basically have the same effect.
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    ɤGrimesFace (#6021)

    Stole Your Kill

    Will this service only be available for MMO's (or RPG's in general), or will it spread into other games with stats and customizable characters (thinking of Halo 3 specifically)?
    Or will this just be a gradually increasing service that will take time but will eventually engulf the entire universe?
    Wow I just confused myself.
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    01.23.08 7:37 pm
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      ӝspot (#6033)

      Chief Instigator

      Any chars which have stats that grow and change we want to support here.
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      01.23.08 8:03 pm
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    ѻzionwingmaster (#6194)

    LVL 72 Beefy Nerd

    Site with a Ton of Char Sheets for all kinds of games, just so people can make the templetes.

    http://www.rpgsheets.com/
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    01.24.08 8:31 pm
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      ӝspot (#7623)

      Chief Instigator

      Ahhh.. thank you sir!
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      01.31.08 10:08 pm
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        ѻzionwingmaster (#7725)

        LVL 72 Beefy Nerd

        Anytime
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    ɤShenaniganCannon (#6414)

    Killed Big Daddies With The Wrench

    I suppose this would be a cool feature...but personally I'd never use it, considering I do zero MMO gaming. The only game I'd probably use for it would be Halo 3 stats, and you could just provide a place for a HTML code from a pre-existing RSS-feed site
    01.27.08 12:58 am
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    ɤSWI (#18660)

    Remembers What Arcades Are

    Now where can you list games? I mean Gaia is coming out with a MMO & Maple Story is a MMO & heck I know of a Japan one (have to look for it again sometime) that is a MMO I heardly hear baout but it's big somehere, I just remember I couldnt sign up for it at the time because I didn't kow how (I can't read the text). So are these going to be supported as well?
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      ӝspot (#18868)

      Chief Instigator

      You just click My Games on the main menu.
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      05.08.08 9:30 pm
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        ɤSWI (#18888)

        Remembers What Arcades Are

        I shall try to remember but I forget all the time.
        My Games huh.... now to find this...
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        05.09.08 9:29 am
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    ʊchillinvillain (#19560)

    Is In Your Base, Killing Your Pokemans

    we using 0 for infinite?
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    05.28.08 1:02 am
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      ӝspot (#19579)

      Chief Instigator

      There is really no such thing as infinite. What would you need infinite for?
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      05.28.08 10:59 am
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        ʊchillinvillain (#19633)

        Is In Your Base, Killing Your Pokemans

        money on characters?
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        05.28.08 10:55 pm
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          ѻzionwingmaster (#19799)

          LVL 72 Beefy Nerd

          Wouldn't that be a weird stat to enter, unless it auto updates, since it changes so insanely often. I couldn't go back to it and update my cash everytime I bought something.
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          05.30.08 1:37 pm
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            ʊchillinvillain (#19975)

            Is In Your Base, Killing Your Pokemans

            nooooooo idea, i'm not going to be making any templates anyway, i just ask questions i think others might think of later.
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            05.30.08 11:58 pm
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              ѻzionwingmaster (#20034)

              LVL 72 Beefy Nerd

              Hehe, guess thats one way.
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              05.31.08 4:20 am
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                ʊchillinvillain (#20179)

                Is In Your Base, Killing Your Pokemans

                =p
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                "We aren't allowed to say brainstorm where I work because it's apparently offensive to people with cerebal palsy (bullshit)." --Chalkley3
                05.31.08 9:31 pm
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    ɤMattCatt (#20235)

    Grew Up On Goombas

    First off, I think only data that cannot be changed should be included. Things like money and stats are not important for character identification.

    Second, what about stats that can only be certain things, like server name or character class? I think those types of stats would be better handled with drop down lists, rather than text boxes.
    06.01.08 8:00 am
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      ӝspot (#20236)

      Chief Instigator

      Of course they will be handled with drop-downs, but we are not offloading intense data architecting onto the community who most do not have the experience to handle it. So we are asking for basic stuff and then we can fill it out from there.
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      06.01.08 8:07 am
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