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Napalm Riot Forums > Tabletop > d20 4th Edition

d20 4th Edition

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    ӝTheHalcyon

    Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

    For those of you who are unaware, WotC is planning a release of 4th edition D&D (which will also set the standard for all d20 OL products across the board) this summer.

    Thoughts?
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    Haly
    :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
    02.17.08 11:33 am
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        ӝspot (#12393)

        Chief Instigator

        I'm sorry, this is in the wrong forum. I am going to have to move it.


        <_<
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        02.17.08 11:34 am
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            ӝTheHalcyon (#12394)

            Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

            *stare*

            *BITE!*
            ---
            Haly
            :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
            02.17.08 11:36 am
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                ɤArchaicStigma (#14353)

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                Your gonna get like AIDZ or somethin' now Spot! :O

                -AS
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                1418-7083-1244 Mario Kart Wii
                02.25.08 4:11 am
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                ɤNeddiedrow (#13572)

                Supreme Commander

                Now, you are a familiar face.
                02.21.08 7:53 pm
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                    ӝspot (#13661)

                    Chief Instigator

                    Me?
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                    02.22.08 1:06 am
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                        ɤNeddiedrow (#13686)

                        Supreme Commander

                        The avatar at least, is familiar. I can't place it.
                        02.22.08 2:43 am
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                            ¤Sangue (#13926)

                            Is laying mines for the good of all.

                            Well, he was a $ on deviantART, dearie. :>
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                            02.23.08 11:53 am
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                                ɤNeddiedrow (#14085)

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                                Oh, yes. That would make sense.
                                02.24.08 12:47 am
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                                    ¤Sangue (#14096)

                                    Is laying mines for the good of all.

                                    It's an easy mistake; you've been out of the dA loop for a while. :>
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                                    02.24.08 1:15 am
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                          ʊchalkley3 (#12396)

                          I go where I please, and I please where I go

                          Finally get your wish? Now you can stop writing passionate flames that makes jesus cry. Maybe we need to gag your computer as well.
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                          Prince Phillp to a Nigerian diplomat in traditional Nigerian garb: "You look as if you’re ready for bed."
                          02.17.08 11:45 am
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                              ӝTheHalcyon (#12443)

                              Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

                              I haz flamed NO ONE! NO ONE I say!

                              Passionate? Yes. I'm hugely passionate. Fire personality mixed with an air spirit? It's bound to happen. But there were no insults! Just hints of unfair treatment and a bit of whine from the pinot noir next door.

                              HAHAHAAAAA!

                              Lovez me. Lovez you. Lovez all.
                              ---
                              Haly
                              :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
                              02.17.08 7:49 pm
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                              ɤGalivice (#12523)

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                              I think that the 4th edition rulebooks look really ugly... New logo also looks bad; to me, the 3.5 logo was like THE iconic DND logo because that has been the logo the entire time I knew of DND's existence.

                              To be honest though, I have no idea what they are actually changing so I cannot say anything more.
                              02.18.08 3:21 am
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                                ¤Sangue (#13188)

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                                I used to play D&D.

                                ...I still have my little purple velvet bag o' dice.

                                ;_;
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                                Napalm Riot's News Babe.
                                02.20.08 12:55 pm
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                                    ӝTheHalcyon (#13356)

                                    Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

                                    My dice bag sits on my desk. I have, inside of it, three full sets of polyhedron dice in various shades of purple and blue -- including a really nice set of blue scarab-style, iridescent with gold numerals. *sigh* Me lovez me some dice!
                                    ---
                                    Haly
                                    :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
                                    02.21.08 3:42 am
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                                        ¤Sangue (#13365)

                                        Is laying mines for the good of all.

                                        I have purple dice with some weird goldy-glitter shiny stuff inside them, and some basic see through turquoise ones, and some orange see through ones, and this nifty clear blue one that has two white mini dice inside it. :>
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                                        02.21.08 4:06 am
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                                            ɤGalivice (#13695)

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                                            I use a Magic: The Gathering life counter die that I got in a fat pack or something, lol.

                                            Though I also have a set of black dice with a marble/granite texture, and the standard boring set of dice that comes with the starter kits and whatnot.
                                            02.22.08 3:01 am
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                                          ɤNeddiedrow (#13571)

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                                          You did?

                                          I have a chainmail bag myself.
                                          02.21.08 7:52 pm
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                                              ¤Sangue (#13603)

                                              Is laying mines for the good of all.

                                              My little bag is in a box somewhere in this room. Since I don't know anyone that plays anymore, there was really no point in unpacking it. :>
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                                              Napalm Riot's News Babe.
                                              02.21.08 9:44 pm
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                                                  ɤNeddiedrow (#13607)

                                                  Supreme Commander

                                                  The EESF had some campaigns on Spring Lobby at some point... no idea if they still do.
                                                  02.21.08 9:46 pm
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                                                      ¤Sangue (#13609)

                                                      Is laying mines for the good of all.

                                                      Interesting. I never knew this.
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                                                      02.21.08 9:51 pm
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                                                ɤNeddiedrow (#13570)

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                                                I'm neither thrilled nor particularly bothered. It is simply too difficult to find people on top of the personal expense and intellectual investment for me to role play these days. I'd rather get a few books finished and on the market than cater to people who just want a slice of the nearest goblin.

                                                That said, I doubt 4th Edition will live up to expectations. They made a conceptual leap with 3rd which was immediately handicapped by an unintuitive implementation of magic, the use of linear progressions in a potentially infinitely scalar system, the failure to reconstruct the Hit Point system into something logical and the obscene decision to allow unmitigated twinking through prestige classes, a poor idea executed disastrously.

                                                Many player who enjoy power gaming seem to cling to these four elements, and so we can safely assume that their corrupting influence will remain in perpetuity.
                                                02.21.08 7:52 pm
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                                                    ӝTheHalcyon (#13684)

                                                    Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

                                                    The first rule of gaming is that powergamers will always come up with ways to min-max the rules. As long as there are greedy and competitive "must win" players who won't be satisfied with anything less than perfection, there will be loopholes to be exploited and lousy DM's who allow those bullshitters to exploit them.

                                                    Personally, I've always found the appeal in the game itself, rather than in the rules. One of the things that I liked about 3rd Ed. is that the rules became more streamlined, less "in the way" than they were in 2nd. They allow equally well for a hack-and-slash dungeon crawl or an in-depth political intrigue where the most combat you see is a well-mannered fencing duel between pampered nobles.

                                                    The other nice thing...is that it was the first real attempt at a standardized system for gaming, that made a bold start at opening up the industry beyond just WotC. Though, obviously, it doesn't work quite as smoothly as we sometimes wish it would (the disaster of d20 Star Wars being a _prime_ example) it was still a wonderful try and a bold vision.

                                                    Now. Is it perfect? Fuck no. Will 4th Ed. be? Nope. Thus far, none of the systems have been capable of satisfying all of the players, all of the time. And just like anything else, those who are dissatisfied will always have the loudest voices.

                                                    My thing, however, is this: do we really need a completely new revision of the rules, so soon?? After all, we had 2nd edition rules for _forever_ -- but now there seems to be this rush to force new and "improved" changes on us every few months. They had barely released 3.0 before they were proposing changes and revisions to be called 3.5...and now we're on to a solid 4.

                                                    So the question, I suppose, is this: is the tabletop industry feeling pressure from the video game industry to...keep up somehow? Or is it reactance to player dissatisfaction with the glaring system flaws?
                                                    ---
                                                    Haly
                                                    :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
                                                    02.22.08 2:37 am
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                                                        ɤNeddiedrow (#13720)

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                                                        It's evidently profit-driven, but short-sighted. 3.0 pulled new players, but I'll wager 3.5 didn't. Both scared off old ones.
                                                        02.22.08 5:09 am
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                                                            ӝTheHalcyon (#13721)

                                                            Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

                                                            Yes, yes, WotC = Whores of the Cash...but do you seriously see it as only a marketing/profit drive? Or do you think that there could be actual change and improvement, enough to warrant an actual re-numbering (4.0 instead of, say, 3.75)?
                                                            ---
                                                            Haly
                                                            :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
                                                            02.22.08 5:23 am
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                                                                ɤNeddiedrow (#13904)

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                                                                I think there will be nominal change, but I don't believe it will be either positive or negative on the whole.
                                                                02.23.08 9:31 am
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                                                                ѻzionwingmaster (#19586)

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                                                                Ya, I started on 3.0, thats when my dad taught me to play and took me with him to games with his friends, then I got hooked and got my friends into it now everyones hooked. I'm worried about 4.0 though cause they might change to much. I was kinda pissed about some of the changes to 3.0 in the 3.5 ed.
                                                                ---
                                                                HEATHEN!
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                                                                05.28.08 1:25 pm
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                                                                    ӝTheHalcyon (#19690)

                                                                    Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

                                                                    I actually liked a lot of the changes they made from 2.0 to 3.0 and from 3 to 3.5 it seemed, to me, that they were just some errata and clarifications and such that they changed. Over all, I think that the way that they streamlined the rules really did a lot to get them "out of the way" for people who like story better than just a hack-and-slash dungeon crawl...but they still kept things neat and tidy to allow for the bloody messes that you can create with a min-maxed group who's only interested in gathering treasure. A nice compromise all around for everyone and to accomodate different play styles.

                                                                    4.0 should be...interesting. To say the least. Fortunately, we'll be able to look through the books and read through some of the changes before we decide to shell out $29387032984273 US for them. LOL! :dieslaughing:
                                                                    ---
                                                                    Haly
                                                                    :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
                                                                    05.29.08 6:17 pm
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                                                                        ѻzionwingmaster (#19746)

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                                                                        Ya, I learned quickly that a kid with no job is hard press for the 50 or so bucks per book on release. That And at the time I didn't worship Half-Price Books. I've learned better now.
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                                                                        05.30.08 2:08 am
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                                                                ɤXeorsos (#14107)

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                                                                I can't say I'm in love with the 70's style artwork on the covers of the new rulebooks, but system-wise I'm struck with anticipation. They've slimmed down the system SO much, done away with level adjustments (every race is now considered equal, as they level with your classes), made casters 100% playable from level 1, created standard party roles for each class, and developed a rule system that wouldn't be overhauled by every splat book that came out. Plus, there's no caster favoritism in the higher levels, and nobody has to play the healer. It's win-freakin'-win.
                                                                02.24.08 1:51 am
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                                                                  ɤArchaicStigma (#14354)

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                                                                  Can someone link the equivalent to patch notes liek wat they added?

                                                                  -AS
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                                                                  1418-7083-1244 Mario Kart Wii
                                                                  02.25.08 4:12 am
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                                                                    ɤSWI (#15466)

                                                                    Remembers What Arcades Are

                                                                    I heard some about this. I do like 4.0 but don't like the idea of getting more books. How ever 4.0 is nicer then 3.5 for the fact of rather then finding peeps to show up to your home (or a home) you can have a system of NET play. So if some one is out of town but has a lap top they can still play the game with others & not miss out.

                                                                    I been talking to peeps for years about getting D&D on to the computer in a way you keep the table top but have gamers from any where so it's easy to find groups & have time to game even on trips if needed.

                                                                    I can carless about Book Cover art. All you need to know is what something looks like & where you are. They make little plastic models now so you don't have to show the book to your gamers.
                                                                    But I am still up in the air about it as I am about ShadowRun 4.0 but thats me.
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                                                                    For the HORDE!
                                                                    03.04.08 11:23 am
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                                                                        ӝTheHalcyon (#15469)

                                                                        Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

                                                                        Haha! Actually, the thing with being able to play online? That's WotC catching up to what everyone's already doing. Personally, I've been playing in and running dice campaigns in all sorts of RPG settings -- from D&D to Star Wars to WoD -- for years.

                                                                        I find it hilariously amusing that they're just now getting this trend when it should have been one of the FIRST things that they incorporated into 3.0 when they did that rework. Better late than never is not the case here, I think...but that's just my opinion.
                                                                        ---
                                                                        Haly
                                                                        :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
                                                                        03.04.08 11:34 am
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                                                                            ɤSWI (#15473)

                                                                            Remembers What Arcades Are

                                                                            They had a free disk before that kinda did that but then 3.5 came out & it kinda went to some other sorta system. 3.0 had too amny issues I think they wanted to wait till 4.0 for the net. I belive another free disk & net service will be given but I'm not too sure. I hope so.
                                                                            ---
                                                                            For the HORDE!
                                                                            03.04.08 11:45 am
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                                                                              ѻzionwingmaster (#19587)

                                                                              VP of Crosseye Comics

                                                                              Waz WoD?
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                                                                              05.28.08 1:27 pm
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                                                                            ɤantimatter58 (#15604)

                                                                            Kills People While They Type

                                                                            Yeah, I don't feel to great about the whole 4.0 thing. Being in high school, I have to buy my own books (I still only have version three cores, and a 3.5 phb). They're a little expensive. I am saving for them. That's not really the only problem though. I like that they're finally becoming accessible to the masses, but we get that at the expense of no longer being able to hardcore game. I don't mean power game, but I liked having to make 30 dice rolls just to get drunk (my rogue is a tank, high con and str, mediocre dex, it's really fun). I want to keep the old style. Also, I just got involved with a group of non player that we have to teach, and 4 will be a pain to switch to, because nobody will know the new rules right off the bat. I'll be stuck reading for a long time, I already know it.
                                                                            03.06.08 12:56 am
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                                                                                ӝTheHalcyon (#15605)

                                                                                Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

                                                                                The good news is, though, that all of you will be learning at the same time. So the uber-new players won't feel like they're never going to catch on.
                                                                                ---
                                                                                Haly
                                                                                :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
                                                                                03.06.08 1:51 am
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                                                                                  ɤSWI (#17263)

                                                                                  Remembers What Arcades Are

                                                                                  After a while you can down load the books.

                                                                                  If you want to keep to 3.5 I say do. if they like it go to 4.0 when they are ready. 4.0 is mainly them fixing what they messed up & making races easy to make into playable races.

                                                                                  Also if they don't like D&D try the new ShadowRun 4.0 as I hear it's easy to learn & less dice to deal with so it's great for the less math savvy people like my self.
                                                                                  ---
                                                                                  For the HORDE!
                                                                                  03.31.08 11:57 pm
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                                                                                  ɤquickdraw (#19405)

                                                                                  Played Final Fantasy Games Before FF7

                                                                                  They lost me at 3rd Edition. Never could get in to the changes they had.

                                                                                  *shrug*
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                                                                                  05.25.08 10:36 pm
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                                                                                    ɤArchus (#20729)

                                                                                    Casts Magic Missile

                                                                                    Ya i'll let me friend buy the books and then explain all the new rules.
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                                                                                    06.03.08 8:08 pm
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                                                                                        ӝTheHalcyon (#21664)

                                                                                        Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

                                                                                        Yeah, well, I'm kinda the book keeper amongst my friends, so I think it'll fall on me to shell out the scratch.
                                                                                        ---
                                                                                        Haly
                                                                                        :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
                                                                                        06.11.08 10:45 pm
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                                                                                        ɤHoobatsch (#22994)

                                                                                        Aggro Monkey

                                                                                        I.. uh.. prefer 2nd ed.


                                                                                        Its just better in my mind. Im not a big fan of WotC anyway. but I think what they did to SwRPG and D&D was kinda horrific.

                                                                                        gary made it as good as it could be the first time round, imho.
                                                                                        ---
                                                                                        Heresy grows from idleness.
                                                                                        06.27.08 12:37 pm
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                                                                                            ӝTheHalcyon (#23015)

                                                                                            Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

                                                                                            THAC0 rulez. Hardcore.

                                                                                            And d6 Star Wars will ALWAYS be the best. Period.
                                                                                            ---
                                                                                            Haly
                                                                                            :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
                                                                                            06.27.08 4:46 pm
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                                                                                                ɤHoobatsch (#23154)

                                                                                                Aggro Monkey

                                                                                                I just really love all the little source books they brought out for it, all the cool little addons that didnt cost so much really. aww.

                                                                                                like traveller. that was a kickass game.
                                                                                                ---
                                                                                                Heresy grows from idleness.
                                                                                                07.01.08 1:19 am
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                                                                                                01.13.08

                                                                                              ɤDibol (#23025)

                                                                                              Rushes With Zerg

                                                                                              Not true... They could come out with a better one...
                                                                                              ---
                                                                                              Just warning you.... Your heads about to be blown of with my R700...
                                                                                              06.28.08 10:28 am
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                                                                                                    Rank
                                                                                                    Staff Sergeant
                                                                                                    Creed
                                                                                                    Role-Playing
                                                                                                    Joined
                                                                                                    02.03.08

                                                                                                  ӝTheHalcyon (#23034)

                                                                                                  Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

                                                                                                  Is it possible? Yes. But not with WotC holding the licensing. The fact has been proven over and over and over again that d20 + Star Wars = DISASTER. And WotC won't put time and effort into developing a system that WILL work, when they've got their heads stuck up their asses to the point where d20 is the ONLY system and is guaranteed to work with everything that you can imagine.

                                                                                                  Bullshit.

                                                                                                  So, when I get a little free time, I'm going to design a system that WILL work. Of course, I won't be able to market it as being for Star Wars or anything....but trust me...it'll work. And it'll be marvelous.
                                                                                                  ---
                                                                                                  Haly
                                                                                                  :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
                                                                                                  06.28.08 3:24 pm
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                                                                                                        Rank
                                                                                                        Sergeant
                                                                                                        Creed
                                                                                                        Strategy
                                                                                                        Joined
                                                                                                        01.13.08

                                                                                                      ɤDibol (#23052)

                                                                                                      Rushes With Zerg

                                                                                                      I hope so!
                                                                                                      ---
                                                                                                      Just warning you.... Your heads about to be blown of with my R700...
                                                                                                      06.29.08 2:28 pm
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                                                                                                      Rank
                                                                                                      Private First Class
                                                                                                      Creed
                                                                                                      MMO
                                                                                                      Joined
                                                                                                      10.18.07

                                                                                                    ɤSWI (#23107)

                                                                                                    Remembers What Arcades Are

                                                                                                    Well my group seems to have liked the test books. Some even bough them. It's more like playing WoW in a way but on paper. Very game friendly. I like that fact they added & moved some races & made it more fun for the over all gamer. Kabolds can now kill you if you don't watch it. Which in 3.0 was something you still should of watched for when they had swarmers, ouch.

                                                                                                    http://youtube.com/watch?v=hWZ2WdeTo1M

                                                                                                    This shows how we play normally on table top but this shows how 4.0 can allow more people can play this way from a laptop when they have a job trip & don't wish to miss their game.

                                                                                                    2 funny vids about 4.0 also:
                                                                                                    http://youtube.com/watch?…jRZWo&feature=related

                                                                                                    http://youtube.com/watch?…2W_TU&feature=related


                                                                                                    ---
                                                                                                    For the HORDE!
                                                                                                    06.30.08 10:34 am
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                                                                                                          Rank
                                                                                                          Staff Sergeant
                                                                                                          Creed
                                                                                                          Role-Playing
                                                                                                          Joined
                                                                                                          02.03.08

                                                                                                        ӝTheHalcyon (#23136)

                                                                                                        Pirate Cap'n, Reckless Thinker, Riot Mother

                                                                                                        Excellent!
                                                                                                        ---
                                                                                                        Haly
                                                                                                        :pirategirl: i haz dice. it r0llz 20. j00 l00ze.
                                                                                                        06.30.08 6:57 pm
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                                                                                                              Rank
                                                                                                              Private First Class
                                                                                                              Creed
                                                                                                              MMO
                                                                                                              Joined
                                                                                                              10.18.07

                                                                                                            ɤSWI (#23137)

                                                                                                            Remembers What Arcades Are

                                                                                                            :D
                                                                                                            ---
                                                                                                            For the HORDE!
                                                                                                            06.30.08 7:11 pm